tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post5447620158127186088..comments2024-01-07T12:38:39.465-06:00Comments on Clean Cut: Why The Priesthood Ban MattersClean Cuthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-41291989257247849562011-11-09T15:48:54.145-06:002011-11-09T15:48:54.145-06:00folk·lore/ˈfōkˌlôr/
Noun:
The traditional beliefs...folk·lore/ˈfōkˌlôr/<br />Noun: <br />The traditional beliefs, customs, and stories of a community, passed through the generations by word of mouth.<br />A body of popular myth and beliefs relating to a particular place, activity, or group of people.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-74071334041457904632011-11-09T12:44:13.669-06:002011-11-09T12:44:13.669-06:00I agree with you there. The Prophets, Seers, and ...I agree with you there. The Prophets, Seers, and Revelators didn't actually know what they were talking about when they said what they said. And it was wrong to deny the priesthood to blacks.<br /><br />But folklore? This isn't folklore, folks.Sethbagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-58925175116858822042011-11-07T15:39:50.288-06:002011-11-07T15:39:50.288-06:00Seth, I've dealt with the semantics a bit befo...Seth, I've dealt with the semantics a bit before <a href="http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-i-dont-believe-that-god-insitituted.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2010/03/differing-definitions-of-doctrine.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, but ultimately the semantics don't matter to me because either way, WE WERE WRONG. Wrong about the justifications for it and wrong to deny blacks the priesthood--period.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-16982055019077040872011-11-07T14:36:02.941-06:002011-11-07T14:36:02.941-06:00This isn't just folklore though, and it's ...This isn't just folklore though, and it's intellectually dishonest to couch it as such. Calling it "folklore" makes it sound like you'd only hear these teachings from the ward cranky old geazer, when in fact these teachings were coming from the top - from Apostles and church Presidents.<br /><br />The 1949 statement of the First Presidency reiterates it explicitly.<br /><br />http://bycommonconsent.com/2004/04/21/a-statement-from-the-first-presidency/<br /><br />It is clear that the doctrine and understanding of the church was that blacks were unable to receive the priesthood because of their conduct in the pre-existence.<br /><br />That the church has backtracked on this now does not mean that back in those days this was merely "folklore". This was church doctrine, taught, practiced, and reiterated numerous times over many decades.Sethbagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-44049427817368180202011-11-01T16:31:22.011-05:002011-11-01T16:31:22.011-05:00ji, I'm glad you did your best to correct the ...ji, I'm glad you did your best to correct the error. Too often people stay silent and let bad comments go unchallenged. <br /><br />Ray/Papa D--ditto. I personally attribute the same "forget everything" quote to even those quotes stating that the ban was God's will, since ALL of those quotes also came before 1978.<br /><br />Muerte--thanks for the props. Where in Oregon are you from?<br /><br />goingtozion--that's a great point. As a historian, I know that there is much we can (and must) learn from the past. And indeed the principle that you stated (and with which I agree 100%) is an important principle. Some of our LDS "culture" needs to be reformed in order to get <a href="http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2010/04/follow.html" rel="nofollow">that point</a> across.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-10096585534483295582011-11-01T16:11:48.680-05:002011-11-01T16:11:48.680-05:00I would say that it isn't a mere foot note. It...I would say that it isn't a mere foot note. It is an important principle. The principle is that leaders in the church are not perfect and that everything they say isn't always God's will or command. Many times, prophets and apostles will say things that are their own opinion and they are wrong. <br /><br />So this is an important principle for members to understand so that they seek out the Spirit in all things that they are taught instead of the commonly held teaching that if you do whatever the prophet says you'll be okay. <br /><br />It is hard to judge others for their times and what they did. So looking at the bigger picture is important and seeing what we can learn and help us grow closer to God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-36140216635761523502011-10-28T19:10:06.637-05:002011-10-28T19:10:06.637-05:00Dang, Clean Cut! You have a great blog here! I c...Dang, Clean Cut! You have a great blog here! I came upon it as I was Google searching the President Kimball quote about never having attended in a boring sacrament meeting.<br /><br />I love your blog title and this post about the Priesthood "ban" is very well written. Loved the references and the language. It's especially meaningful to me because it's coming from an Islander*.<br /><br />*From Oregon.Bryan Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13737711722825490496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-36511682649281799272011-10-24T12:09:50.059-05:002011-10-24T12:09:50.059-05:00It is specifically because of the lingering folklo...It is specifically because of the lingering folklore that I talk and write about the ban still. <br /><br />Elder McConkie said to forget EVERYTHING that was said to justify the ban after it was lifted. He said we (Mormons, generally, and - I believe - apostles, specifically) spoke with "limited light and knowledge" when promulgating the folklore. <br /><br />I wish everyone understood and accepted his statement.Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-26494599157904300582011-10-24T11:35:08.716-05:002011-10-24T11:35:08.716-05:00The folklore does still linger -- I heard it taugh...The folklore does still linger -- I heard it taught just last month in my Sunday School class -- we are far from the center place, but our teacher just moved from there -- he read from Doctrines of Salvation about how some persons kept their first estate but they were still less valiant and unfit for exaltation, but they can earn a lesser glory after this earth life -- and they are commonly sent to the poorer less productive parts of the earth at birth. I tried to correct the error, but the folklore still lingers.<br /><br />We need to teach correct principles. But in my mind, we do not need to apologize for the past or over-study the past or rationalize the past. So yes, the priesthood ban matters, and for some it matters too much. At least, this is how I see it. Maybe they are called to that work.jinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-3831965019260150232011-10-24T11:28:53.028-05:002011-10-24T11:28:53.028-05:00I also highly recommend J. Stapley's: Teaching...I also highly recommend J. Stapley's: <a href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2011/07/22/teaching-the-priesthood-restriction/" rel="nofollow">Teaching the Priesthood Restriction</a>Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.com