tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post5573883946807224231..comments2024-01-07T12:38:39.465-06:00Comments on Clean Cut: God is Three. God is One. And We Can Be One With God.Clean Cuthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-12161468256593637382008-11-17T17:52:00.000-06:002008-11-17T17:52:00.000-06:00Hello again Spencer,AaronShaf...(something or othe...Hello again Spencer,<BR/><BR/>AaronShaf...(something or other), has just uploaded a youtube video( part 1) of a really <A HREF="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ruA-skEo__g" REL="nofollow">interesting debate</A> between a LDS and an Evangelical Christian =)<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry I haven't replied, but I'll get back to you soon! Take care,<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://nmbygracethroughfaith.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">NM</A>NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-43705551056111446552008-11-02T21:08:00.000-06:002008-11-02T21:08:00.000-06:00One more thing I forgot to mention. Mark says tha...One more thing I forgot to mention. Mark says that Mormons believe that "Jesus was a man who became God", yet this too is misrepresentation. Our Standard Works/the scriptures make it very clear that He was "from everlasting to everlasting" and part of the "one Eternal God", so Mark's not giving the full story there.<BR/><BR/>In terms of what I said earlier about the Trinity, I need to make one more clarification. I recognize that I was limiting the Trinity to just one aspect of the Trinity. Taken in its entirety, I feel like I understand well the Trinity in that there are three distinct persons yet one God, cause I, as a Mormon, believe that too. <BR/><BR/>Obviously Latter-day Saints rarely use the term Trinity, although there are many interpretations we actually agree with. We prefer the title "Godhead" to refer to the three divine beings who govern our universe in perfect oneness.<BR/><BR/>So the mystery of the Trinity to me--what I can't comprehend--is how those three distinct persons are are understood to be one being, and how Christ's resurrected body is part of that being.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-15788323869227020492008-11-02T19:02:00.000-06:002008-11-02T19:02:00.000-06:00Please share what you find so intriguing about "Th...Please share what you find so intriguing about "The Shack"--especially since Mark tears it apart in that clip. What was your experience reading it? Did you feel it represented the Trinity properly? Why or why not?Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-7850664276973010922008-11-02T19:00:00.000-06:002008-11-02T19:00:00.000-06:00Mark does seem to articulate what my co-workers te...Mark does seem to articulate what my co-workers tend to believe about Mormons--the misrepresentation that Mormons believe we can "become God". It's simply not true, and it's misleading. However, I can see how a misunderstanding of Mormon doctrine would lead people to believe that. It's just sad that that which gets perpetuated about "what Mormons believe" about God is not what we actually believe.<BR/><BR/>However, in the end, Mark essentially states the LDS view when he clarifies that the Trinity is not Modalism: "They're distinct. They work together. The Father sent the Son. The Son died on the cross". We believe this too.<BR/><BR/>We both believe in the distinctness and oneness of God. We believe in the biblical threeness and oneness of God. So it appears that most of the time we speak past each other and probably misrepresent each other more often than we truly understand how we each believe these truths. <BR/><BR/>Probably, as you say, many Latter-day Saints falsely believe that Trinitarians believe in Modalism. At least I know I used to. I now know that there are true descriptions of the Trinity in which Mormons would have no problem agreeing with, including the Apostles creed and even much of the Nicene Creed. I would venture to say that the only part of the Trinity that Latter-day Saints don't share with other Christians is the ontological oneness of God.<BR/><BR/>You might be interested in reading <A HREF="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/25/the-mormon-trinity/" REL="nofollow">The Mormon Trinity</A>, at Mormon Matters--an LDS group blog.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-60172172425203700422008-11-02T16:01:00.000-06:002008-11-02T16:01:00.000-06:00Gah.Spencer, I honestly wouldn't know where to sta...Gah.<BR/><BR/>Spencer, I honestly wouldn't know where to start =)<BR/><BR/>I know there was a guy/guyette who was on here recently who made some interesting points regarding modalism (which, it seems, how the LDS view trinitarianism). Hmm, I've recently noticed that someone has uploaded an interesting youtube video of Mark Driscoll. I personally, do not know what to make of Mark; I find his talks very interesting, but I do find his comments a little <I>off-the-wall</I> and sometimes a little insensitive. <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1nsY2iUiF0" REL="nofollow">This clip</A> shows Mark discussing some of what Christianity would label as heresies to others who do not hold to trinitarianism....he mentions LDS as a heresy - because he states that LDS are polytheists...<BR/><BR/>Seriously though, can I recommend '<A HREF="http://www.eauk.org/theology/filmreviews/the-shack.cfm" REL="nofollow">The Shack</A>' to you? I'm be willing to buy it for you, if you would so let me =)NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-43730429395395584962008-10-23T12:32:00.000-05:002008-10-23T12:32:00.000-05:00Jared, I'm so glad to see you've started a new blo...Jared, I'm so glad to see you've started a new blog! Your comment is very insightful and it is probably a lot better for me to also think in terms of "master to dog" relationship than a zoo or a fish bowl. There's hardly any interaction with the animals in a zoo or a bowl. So thanks for sharing that.<BR/><BR/>This past Sunday as the primary children presented their Sacrament Meeting presentation, they started by singing "I am a child of God", and it was quite a poignant moment to contemplate what exactly that means to me personally, and also to us Latter-day Saints collectively. <BR/><BR/>I love what you said: "Imagine God alone in the universe with his house full of well loved cats ... or God surrounded eternally with his beloved children...Yes, we are God's children just like the Bible says we are". <BR/><BR/>Is it any wonder why we place such an emphasis on the family? That's what we believe God's plan is all about for us as His literal children! "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Romans 8:16). And I look forward to quite a family reunion.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-49976283421047531892008-10-23T12:19:00.000-05:002008-10-23T12:19:00.000-05:00Nat, thanks for the recommendation. I have, indee...Nat, thanks for the recommendation. I have, indeed, tried recently to understand the Trinity better. I do understand it BETTER than before, but, as Traditional Christians admit, it is a mystery and for me it's very mysterious to understand. But that's okay. We all have things we believe in that aren't particularly easy to describe. Do you mind giving a brief summary as to how you understand the Trinity?Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-85608854140229765192008-10-21T20:41:00.000-05:002008-10-21T20:41:00.000-05:00I imagine the 'Trinity-God to human relationsh...I imagine the 'Trinity-God to human relationship' more like a 'Master to dog relationship' than a zoo or a fish tank.<BR/><BR/>As humans we can have a real relationship with the family dog. I can love my dog even though he is a different species. My dog has different emotions and much less capacity than a human, but my dog loves me in his sphere and I love him in mine. We have a relationship. I can never make a dog a human. A good dog is loyal, trusting and faithful to his master (not to mention lovable). God is good so the idea of toying with an inferior species doesn't enter the picture.<BR/><BR/>That is the type of relationship I imagine evangelical Christians have with God. Perhaps it would be better to say that most people are sheep, the prophets are the dogs, and God is the Good Shepherd. This make some intellectual sense but, how much can you love a sheep? I mean really? I'm hoping we're dogs, but ... <sigh> ... we're probably more like ants.<BR/><BR/>I definitely agree with you, that the LDS view that mankind are the children of God is much better. It brings light to a dark universe. Imagine God alone in the universe with his house full of well loved cats ... or God surrounded eternally with his beloved children.<BR/><BR/>Yes, we are God's children just like the Bible says we are.<BR/><BR/>-Jared WJ+C Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08721820389680179449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-33440024144182723942008-10-21T14:31:00.000-05:002008-10-21T14:31:00.000-05:00This book has had mixed reviews, but can I recomme...This book has had mixed reviews, but can I recommend a book titled, "The Shack", by William Young.<BR/><BR/>I've only recently read it, and I agree with some of the critics, that there are some major flaws, but if we keep in mind that the story is merely fiction, the book does a good job of explaining the Trinity =)<BR/><BR/>I hope you and family are all well =) And as always, I look forward to more of your posts!<BR/><BR/>NatNMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-86372594623404461072008-10-09T16:52:00.000-05:002008-10-09T16:52:00.000-05:00NOYDMB writes...Kalola, there are many things that...NOYDMB writes...<BR/>Kalola, there are many things that we do not know about the premortal existence. We suppose that we looked a lot like we would like as adults. <BR/><BR/>Substance, depends on what your definition of substance is. Physical, no, spiritual yes. Some people describe spirit as unsubstantial, but LDS describe spirit as substance.<BR/><BR/>Scripturally, we know that Heavenly Father has physical body that is permanently connected to his spiritual body. We suppose our h.m. does too, but scripturally we do not know. But we also do not know anything at all about how spirit children are created in the premortal existence, and one couldn't say one way or the other that we would HAVE to have physical bodies. It would appear that we wouldn't. <BR/><BR/>Fianlly, re intelligences, there are differing opinions on "intelligences". Some church leaders believe that intelligences were a pre-spirit birth form of a person, in which case we have no idea what the form would be. Other leaders believe that the intelligences simply refers to a spirit, and therefore we would know the form. In any case, a lot of supposition. Incidentally, not much of this is important to know if we will repent and turn to Christ, and be sanctified to deification. I don't mind that we don't know so much, because there are much more important things that we DO know about.<BR/><BR/>Hope that helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-57415914250195314682008-10-09T14:20:00.000-05:002008-10-09T14:20:00.000-05:00This may not be on topic, but I have a few questio...This may not be on topic, but I have a few questions to ask.<BR/><BR/>What did we look like in the pre-existence? Did we have substance? I ask this question since we are taught that we came to earth to obtain a physical body. Do our Heavenly Parents have physical bodies? If they do, wouldn't we have had physical bodies as well?<BR/><BR/>If we were "spirits" in the pre-existence, what did we look like?<BR/><BR/>Also, I've heard reference to "intelligences." What is an "intelligence?" Does it have form?<BR/><BR/>Sometimes I get all confused. I'm hoping you can answer my questions.Kalolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04489121984901640634noreply@blogger.com