tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post4745742728324252208..comments2024-01-07T12:38:39.465-06:00Comments on Clean Cut: One Year After The Paradigm Shift--"Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling"Clean Cuthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-5842332648101876952009-01-25T12:10:00.000-06:002009-01-25T12:10:00.000-06:00Seth, I absolutely LOVE your comment. Amen to tha...Seth, I absolutely LOVE your comment. Amen to that.<BR/><BR/>To paraphrase Bushman himself, the quicker that "all aspects of Joseph’s life [are introduced] into common lore about the Prophet the way most people know he had a seerstone", etc., the quicker we can then realize that they're really not a big deal after all. As Bushman himself said, "these now disturbing facts will become one more thing you accept along with visitation of angels and gold plates. People will wonder, question, and eventually assimilate."<BR/><BR/>So here's to the assimilating! Indeed it's refreshing not to have to be apologizing. After all, in any religious tradition, if you go back far enough, you're bound to find some "odd" things, but that still doesn't change the "truth".<BR/><BR/>I always enjoy your perspective.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-14645717825744244572009-01-25T01:46:00.000-06:002009-01-25T01:46:00.000-06:00Thanks for the post. I've been feeling the Neal A....Thanks for the post. I've been feeling the Neal A. Maxwell quote keenly for some time now - but am happy to find he has put it to words so succinctly and effectively.<BR/><BR/>I very much feel that we, as a people have gotten in the bad habit of reflexively cringing away from the uncomfortable truth about our past.<BR/><BR/>Bushman's approach is a breath of fresh air.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, Joseph Smith did treasure-hunting and mysticism and maybe there is a freemasonry connection out there, etc, etc.<BR/><BR/>And we don't have to apologize for that stuff! These things we've been hiding from all these years are not the demons we thought they were. They just aren't a big deal. It's like being under threat all day, and suddenly discovering the gun was never loaded to begin with.<BR/><BR/>I'm tired of apologizing, in a world of messed-up people, for the quirks and oddities of my own people.Seth R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13769247769345052208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-74709428798386444512009-01-22T10:25:00.000-06:002009-01-22T10:25:00.000-06:00Interesting comments at this post about reactions ...Interesting comments at this post about reactions to the book: <A HREF="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/01/the-bushman-diaries/" REL="nofollow">The Bushman Diaries</A>Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-28324773588633286342009-01-20T15:06:00.000-06:002009-01-20T15:06:00.000-06:00Thanks for the comments, ya’ll. (I can say ya’ll ...Thanks for the comments, ya’ll. (I can say ya’ll cause I live in Texas). ☺ Ama, nice to see again.<BR/><BR/>Tom, I actually agree with you about how Richard Bushman “straddles the fence”. But I actually don’t fault him for this, precisely because Joseph is very polarizing in his own right. I wouldn’t want an author/biographer taking an extreme stance—leave it to the readers to decide for themselves. I think Bushman was very fair. But you’re right—the book is not so much “spiritual” (that wasn’t the aim) as it is “historical”. And while I enjoyed the biographies of Gordon B. Hinckley and Ezra Taft Benson (by Sheri Dew) immensely, or of Neal A. Maxwell (by Bruce C. Hafen), etc—there is a definite difference in Bushman’s approach. <BR/><BR/>I personally found it advantageous to be “told like it was” (although Bushman admits that pure objectivity is impossible) rather than merely reading the so called “faith promoting.” Bushman wouldn't have been taken seriously had he over-idealized Joseph Smith.<BR/><BR/>There is a wide variety of reactions depending on how much one already knows or has assimilated into their faith paradigm. Certain facts may cause some to question or test their faith at first, but I feel that ultimately my faith is much deeper and more grounded as a result of having read this book. I've "assimilated" my faith and the facts, and that's a very good thing.<BR/><BR/>Faithful Girl, I look forward to hearing from you in the future concerning your thoughts/questions as you read the book. I really enjoy discussing things with others and I’m sure it would be mutually beneficial. I hope I can live up to your judgment of being a “reliable source for help with church questions”. I most certainly strive to be faithful, and if I’m not helpful, I can always point you to several other fantastic sources that I personally have found beneficial. I’d love to re-read and discuss the book with others.Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-90975626897381386342009-01-20T12:56:00.000-06:002009-01-20T12:56:00.000-06:00The only time I myself have heard people talking a...The only time I myself have heard people talking about this book they say it made them not believe in the propher or the church, so it's good to hear a recommendation from someone who is strong and faithful. Now that I've heard it from you, I am definitely putting this book on my list of books to read. You may be hearing from me in the future if I have questions. You seem like a reliable source for help with church questions.Faithfulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973907253846958614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-66641878459980232532009-01-19T18:16:00.000-06:002009-01-19T18:16:00.000-06:00I too loved the book, though it is not perfect. F...I too loved the book, though it is not perfect. For me it put a much more human face on the prophet and his family. I was particularly intrigued by his interpretation of Joseph Smith Senior's business failure and the impact of folk magic.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand Bushman bent over backward trying to be objective/scholarly. I don't think this worked very well. Joseph Smith and his divine mission as a prophet are very polarizing. I think everyone reading or writing about him must choose to believe Joseph or not. Bushman tried to straddle the fence as an academic. It was a valiant effort, but it seemed to reduce the spiritual impact of the book. I'd like to have a copy of the History of Joseph Smith By His Mother on the shelf next to it.Tom Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00269543312568823613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-20408752813245570872009-01-19T18:01:00.000-06:002009-01-19T18:01:00.000-06:00Hi Clean Cut,Very good post on the book.I've had m...Hi Clean Cut,<BR/><BR/>Very good post on the book.<BR/><BR/>I've had many questions throughout my activity in the church and this book addressed many of them. <BR/><BR/>I would say that I too had a pardigm shift about the prophet and this book helped me feel o.k. for not having a view that the prophet was infallible. For years I haven't agreed with certain things about the prophet and I felt guilty for it. However, I can't deny what you testified about as well and that is that the Book of Mormon has indeed brought me closer to Jesus and for that alone I'm grateful to the prophet for.<BR/><BR/>http://www.graceforgrace.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-27911094768339398002009-01-19T16:42:00.000-06:002009-01-19T16:42:00.000-06:00John f, thanks for your comment. I'm finding it e...John f, thanks for your comment. I'm finding it even more enjoyable the second time around.<BR/><BR/>Greg, give it a chance despite the title of "cultural biography". It most certainly sheds new light(s) on the Prophet's life, and also, like I mentioned, early Church history. Bushman is a master at adding context to Joseph's life experiences and work; even those things that most people feel familiar with already, as well as things that are lesser known yet very significant. <BR/><BR/>Like you, I too look forward to the "Joseph Smith Papers" series.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10489468699241286022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-16451326584059231522009-01-19T12:53:00.000-06:002009-01-19T12:53:00.000-06:00Thanks for the post on this interesting book. I pi...Thanks for the post on this interesting book. I picked up a copy when it first came out. Then, a family member gave me another copy for Christmas. However, when I went to read it, I was disappointed simply because it is a "cultural biography". Consequently, I have read very few pages since this approach did not seem to throw any new light on the Prophet's life.<BR/><BR/>In stark contrast, and I'm sure this is just because of my background and interests, I find great meaning in works such as <I>The Words of Joseph Smith</I> and the <I>Joseph Smith Papers</I> series.<BR/><BR/>I have found throughout the years that there are always bits and pieces of the Prophet's life that I didn't know before that help me see and appreciate this great man who was called to found the final and last dispensation of the gospel on the earth. As I've learned these things, my appreciation for him has only grown.<BR/><BR/>So, for me at least, while I appreciate the fact that there is an audience for RSR, I found it very difficult to read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-57742502298971270052009-01-19T08:19:00.000-06:002009-01-19T08:19:00.000-06:00Thanks for this. I'm also a huge fan of RSR and a...Thanks for this. I'm also a huge fan of RSR and am actually rereading it right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com