tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post8888416462787221859..comments2024-01-07T12:38:39.465-06:00Comments on Clean Cut: "'A Prophet is not always a Prophet' only when he is acting as such"Clean Cuthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-74819394728486852722015-12-17T13:31:51.107-06:002015-12-17T13:31:51.107-06:00Personally, I don’t find the ‘acting as a prophet’...Personally, I don’t find the ‘acting as a prophet’ distinction very useful anymore. Whether he is or isn’t, it seems to me that I face the same responsibility to evaluate his actions/statements in light of what I know about Christ (though scriptures, teachings of modern leaders, revelation, etc.).Jason L.http://rationalfaiths.com/come-follow-me-v-follow-the-prophet/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-82014815752525811872015-07-20T08:04:52.707-05:002015-07-20T08:04:52.707-05:00Clearly, there is no infallible objective standard...Clearly, there is no infallible objective standard to discern the mind and will of God with 100% clarity and certainty. Even objective "Truth" is ALWAYS evaluated subjectively. The scriptures and the Brethren are not inerrant or infallible standards either.<br /><br />So in the end the only thing I can fall back on is individual discernment of the mind and will of God. And I'm completely comfortable living with uncertainty.<br /><br />Terryl Givens:<br /><br />“We believe that it is always our responsibility to confirm through our own study and prayer and responsiveness to the spirit, whether what we’re hearing, is the mind and will of the Lord or not.<br /><br />"I think of Orson Pratt who alone of twelve apostles refused to consent to the false doctrine of Adam-God and only many years later was vindicated for his steadfast integrity, so it may be that in the short term we do find ourselves on the margins or ostracized but I think that our devotion always has to be first and foremost to our conscience, before to any institution.” <br /><br />http://mormonstories.org/fiona-and-terryl-givens-and-the-crucible-of-doubt/ <br />1 hour 33 minute mark on part 2Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-38908813337427664362015-05-06T09:29:36.943-05:002015-05-06T09:29:36.943-05:00To quote the late great BYU historian Richard Poll...To quote the late great BYU historian Richard Poll:<br /><br />"James Madison cautioned: 'When the Almighty himself condescends to address mankind in their own language, his meaning, luminous as it must be, is rendered dim and doubtful by the cloudy medium through which it is communicated.' Because I believe with Madison that everyone, including Paul and other prophets, sees eternity "through a glass darkly" (1 Cor. 13:12), prophetic infallibility, scriptural inerrancy, and unquestioning obedience are not elements of my faith." Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-73795201117511456362015-02-17T21:18:04.873-06:002015-02-17T21:18:04.873-06:00I sincerely appreciate the comments--it's nice...I sincerely appreciate the comments--it's nice to feel like I'm not just talking myself!<br /><br />Andy, I only would disagree that our test is whether we will follow church leaders even when they are wrong. <br /><br />I don't see any virtue in that, since I believe obedience is to principles and not to persons. I will still try to love, sustain, and support them, but I won't do anything that violated my conscience, because my ultimate loyalty must be to God/my conscience.<br /><br />In other words, I don't think that the folks who "followed" their stake president and committed the Mountain Meadows Massacre will be blessed for it. It was morally wrong.<br /><br />I *do* think Alexander Doniphan will be blessed for disobeying the orders of his superiors to execute Joseph Smith, since those were morally wrong orders. (And he wasn't even Mormon, but still a great example.)Clean Cuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383123314458721660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-15350474241928698152015-02-07T18:50:54.221-06:002015-02-07T18:50:54.221-06:00CC,
Despite the ongoing erosion of my faith, I li...CC,<br /><br />Despite the ongoing erosion of my faith, I like to visit your blog occasionally because I take some comfort in your words. I appreciate your current post as well. <br /><br />A couple of things in relation to this subject are particularly irksome to me. One is, when was the last time a prophet ever prefaced his words to notify us whether he was speaking as a prophet vs. giving his own (not necessarily inspired) opinion? Modern church leaders make no such distinction, however valid your comments may be. It’s not clear that they know when they’re speaking as prophets vs. otherwise. Two is that some church leaders seem to thnk that the members will be blessed for following church leaders, even if the leaders are wrong, and that the issue of whether they are wrong is not the business of the members. <br /><br />Perhaps our test is whether we will follow church leaders even when they are wrong, but the decision to follow may not be the way to pass the test. Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3920640965536781054.post-8299699903663676772015-02-04T18:18:46.646-06:002015-02-04T18:18:46.646-06:00Yes! I love your post! Amen!Yes! I love your post! Amen!Anon 1noreply@blogger.com